Curse

Sai of Winter · Sep 11, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Titles mean nothing to me when forming groups and I've never seen anybody use titles as a requirement to join groups (PvE). I just choose people that can communicate well, listen, be effective and benefit the group. I find it kinda lame if people are looking for a person with a certain title to be successful in a mission or quest when they could possibly fail.

Domino · Sep 11, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Titles don't mean anything. For all you know that guy was run through the game, or paid for a Masters completion group or something.

All that matters is skill.

achilles ankle · Sep 11, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Dont really care about any title at all..considering almost all of them can be obtained by getting run and/or carried through the game.
When forming parties i look at proffession,name(ppl with names like OWNED or anything with noobs in it i dont take)and after they join their attitude toward the group, if they are offensive or have an attitude i kick them. By far the worst ppl to find for a group are monks, because there is only a small percentage of them that will join and alot of them act like jerks, or like they are better than everyone else. If your a monk and u join my group acting like that, ill kick you like all the rest.

shinrinningu · Sep 11, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Titles aren't an accurate indicator of skill at all. A mediocre player can tag along with PUGs with good players in missions to get bonus/masters and that would dispute any claim that they achieved their protector titles with "skill" and "dedication"-- although, we wouldn't ever know.

As corny as it may sound, it's like judging a book by its cover.

Malice Black · Sep 11, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

henchway ftw..or play with friends...

draxynnic · Sep 12, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynxius Pardonus

I know another thing that instantly makes me leave someones team or kick the individual who does this(in case im the leader of that party)
Its when they say : OK LETS GOGOGOGOGOGOGO
These impatient idiots will usually rush off into mobs, and usually leave the party when things go wrong.

Or they're in a hurry because they haven't left enough time to do the mission, and they end up dropping or leeching halfway through...

Naga The Apocalypse · Sep 12, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death3D

i choose people based off professions, yup. im a jerk. sorry, no W/mo or Mo/W in my groups.

yea dude, thats how all groups should be. if more groups were like that then we wouldnt have so many retards thinkin they are gonna rock with their outdated scymbage builds

Cherno · Sep 12, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Title, much like rank, makes absolutely no difference to me when forming/joining a group. I do my adds or requests based off the local chat, where you can't see the title. I could just have a lucky title up because I happen to like it that day while hiding underneath is my KoaBD title, that they don't see. Picking party members in PvE based on title is as erroneous as basing it off of rank.

Cherno · Sep 12, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death3D

i choose people based off professions, yup. im a jerk. sorry, no W/mo or Mo/W in my groups.

Not so much a jerk as closed-minded. Not all W/Mos are leroys, I would even go so far as to say that most later in game aren't. Most of the time my scondary is just whatever it was last without any skills from the secondary on it. Many many people use Mo as the secondary just for the reusable res. That a good way to think of the team right? Which is what you are trying to achieve?

Mo/W cause me worry though. But I won't reject them. I will ask what kind of build they are running or if they are a 55. If they are a 55, they are likely gone, but you still can't make any decisions based off profession without communicating.

Best to stick with henchies where you know exactly what to expect and what their 4 or 5 skills are so you won't be surprised by any diversity outside a cookie-cutter build.

BowLad21 · Sep 12, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

I don't think many people will object to a non-protector monk with all the paragons and dervishes running around. That said, if you want to bring a wammo to my party, better turn on your protector.

Divineshadows · Sep 12, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Having finally gotten around to doing Factions missions with my multiple Tyrian characters, I usually prefer to form a PUG rather than join one because my goal is to get masters on the first time rather than having to redo missions to get additional skill points.

Titles have no influence when I am forming a PUG. First and foremost, I highly prefer that the player actually pm me per my request in all chat (rather than going blind self invite).

Here are the questions I ask:

1. What are your attribute levels?
2. What is your elite skill?
3. Casters only -- what skills are you using for energy management? Elementalists that answer energy storage get the boot. This question is not necessary for warriors, rangers, and assassins, because I can already tell if their energy is going to be ok based on the answers to the previous two questions.
4. What is your ressurection skill? Monks are exempt from this question. I recently just had to add this question to my list. I prefer 4 or 5 rez sigs and one or two hard rez in the group.

It is a bit time consuming but whenever I take the time to screen PUGs in this way, I never have any issues getting masters on a mission.

jesh · Sep 13, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by nethrandr

Looking at a person's rank is a decent way of finding out whether that player is a complete noob or not. At least i know a rank 6 player will not bring mending and healing hands in his build.

A pvp will always outperform a pve monk in all situations. They have better energy mangement and can withstand so much more shutdown and pressure. They will also usually have superior reaction times than pve monks. PVP is just a much higher level of play and those that pvp will most likely be decent at pve which is so much easer.

And for those that say the person could have just iwayed his rank....it still takes skill the run iway. If iway is so easy why dont you go try run iway and win the halls with it.

What? A PvP warrior won't take healing hands or mending, that's true, because he'll take all offensive skills. You just pointed the problem out yourself. That's not what you want to do in PVE. 16 axe and 11 str will get you this far in PVE - 0. You'll die like a red headed step-assassin if you take pure offense and condition/hex removal.
I would *rather* a warrior with mending and healing hands in my group, hell, it means he's already been to the ring of fire and knows he needs more than Eviscerate to survive.

As for your comment on PVP vs PVE on monks, I don't even see any material to support your comment, so I'll ignore it. PVP and PVE are different games, and that's all there is to it. Just because someone choses to play PVE doesn't mean that they're so stupid all they can do is spam flare or healing breeze with no energy management. Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

Try playing a balanced GvG build that relies on mobility through Cantha, ignoring the fact that your enemies are five levels higher than you are, get cheap damage reduction, and outnumber you fifteen to one*.

The standard PvP troll post is that PvE is oh-so-easy because you can exploit the static enemy AI. Granted! Wich is great, as long as you're with people who know how that AI works in the first place! That is not a given if we're talking about someone who tries to join a pickup group on the basis of his PvP titles.

*we're not using PvE skills here - no aggro management, so you're expected to take on half the map at once.

Quoted for truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bono

You can't compare PvE and PvP monk. Pve monks are all about energy management and taking the right skill set for the mission. PvP monking is about survival, kiting, and experience (knowing what build your opponent are runnning by there secondary proffesion. ex: W/e, R/w,N/me, R/n)

A good PvE monk will do both.

I don't think titles mean crap, though I've more than a few. Why? Anyone can leech or buy their way to a title, the only one not being like that - the cartographer title. Does that title show how skilled you are? Not, not really.. except maybe how well you can run away from a fight. I know from doing all the missions that there is at least *always* one person in the group that can't carry their weight. Why? It's a pug. And they're getting the master's/bonus just like you are.

Wyldchild777 · Sep 13, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Greetings,

Just had to comment here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

<snip>
Pvp has more pressure for monk than in pve, that's why I say pvp monk is generally better than pve monk. I take pug monk in pve with Hero title any day.

The Hero title is account based. Meaning that the person with one could have earned it playing shock warrior, a bunny thumper or interrupt ranger, or any other type of build without ever having played a monk, much less a healer. A protector or cartographer title, however, is character based. The person with those titles has had to play that character to earn those titles, showing that the person does have experience running that profession.

As far as a person's name or communication skills - it's never really been that much of a problem for me. Mainly because I don't form groups. I join them. But, that is only after trying the mission or quest a few times with henchmen first. First time is to get to know the quest, then two to four more times to try strategies to beat it. If a person's is leetspeaking too much or making too many off-color comments, I warn the group that they better start communicating with target calls and compass drawings because I then turn off local chat and team chat. If the group fails, then *shrug* I'll just finish out till party wipe, get another group, and try again.

Now, personally, I've never seen people demanding a title be shown to get into a group, be it mission or explorable. I don't base my opinions on a person's title either. The best way to determine if a person knows what they're doing in PvE, in my opinion, is to ask them what their build is. And yes, I know that the person could have simply looked up the build online, but at least they've given thought to the build and have decided they understand it enough to run it.

Besides, I love showing off my tyrian grandmaster cartographer title to myself. I sometimes just like to sit back and think about the fun (not sarcastically meant) that I had getting it. Like, trying to figure out, and then actually implementing, how to map the Dunes of Despair mission. Or, fully exploring from Drok's to Beacon's with a full henchmen group because I can't find anyone willing to devote the time to map it. Things like that.

As a final note - PvP titles and a /rank emote do not automatically mean that you're a good PvE player, just like having FoW armor doesn't automatically mean you're a good PvPer. It goes both ways.

Merry meet, merry met, merry meet again,
Wyldchild777

Rera · Sep 13, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

16 axe and 11 str will get you this far in PVE - 0.

As for your comment on PVP vs PVE on monks, I don't even see any material to support your comment, so I'll ignore it. PVP and PVE are different games, and that's all there is to it. Just because someone choses to play PVE doesn't mean that they're so stupid all they can do is spam flare or healing breeze with no energy management. Please.

16 axe, 10 str, and a bar full of damage skills will get you everywhere in the game, and much better than the moron that took half a bar of self heals and defensive skills. If you've actually played warriors and honestly, *honestly* believe you need defense and self-heal, then I pity you, because either you or your groups are completely incompetent.

A good PvP monk is more likely to understand fundamental aspects of monking, such as positioning, focus swapping, kiting, etc. simply because PvP is much less forgiving of incompetence. Either you learn all of these things quickly, or you will die, repeatedly. PvE just isn't difficult enough to force this kind of learning in most players. I constantly find myself in groups with incompetent monks, but as long as you have a few other people who know what they're doing you'll manage to complete whatever mission you were doing anyway.

---

Titles are indicators of time invested, not skill. You have no idea how that person got their Protector of X title. Maybe they did everything with henchies, maybe they did it with a guild group, or maybe they had their friend run them through half the missions. The sad truth is that there often is no way to accurately determine player skill until you play with the person. Most GW players should be happy about this though, because otherwise they'd never be able to find groups. Ever. For anything.

Cherno · Sep 13, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

That's not what you want to do in PVE. 16 axe and 11 str will get you this far in PVE - 0. You'll die like a red headed step-assassin if you take pure offense and condition/hex removal.

That's so weird as I went through all of tyria and factions completion with my warrior set up with those attributes. I was not burdensome on our monks and never had any major problems. There is more to being a warrior than being a stance tank. Some warriors actually setup to do dmg.

Titan Chrae · Sep 13, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

The one title that will affect my decision is "Survivor." I won't take them on a pug mission if I see it.

Lynxius · Sep 13, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

16 axe, 10 str, and a bar full of damage skills will get you everywhere in the game, and much better than the moron that took half a bar of self heals and defensive skills. If you've actually played warriors and honestly, *honestly* believe you need defense and self-heal, then I pity you, because either you or your groups are completely incompetent.

Ever heard of stance tanks???
Do you even know what their job is??
Do you even have any idea how easy this can make a small partys objective be completed?
A stances tank, and i mean, a Good Tanker, will take the whole agro, usually evade nearly everysingle Physical atack [melee and ranged(yes the underrated evade arrows stances)], and make it much easier on the monks healing duty, while the casters nuke away.

I remember farming Green bosses in Sorrows furnace with 4 people.
All thanks to proper tanking, proper healing, proper nuking, and the ocasional MM which will body block with his minions(which is unrequired with a good warrior tanker).

-Lynxius

Divineshadows · Sep 13, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

What? A PvP warrior won't take healing hands or mending, that's true, because he'll take all offensive skills. You just pointed the problem out yourself. That's not what you want to do in PVE. 16 axe and 11 str will get you this far in PVE - 0. You'll die like a red headed step-assassin if you take pure offense and condition/hex removal.
I would *rather* a warrior with mending and healing hands in my group, hell, it means he's already been to the ring of fire and knows he needs more than Eviscerate to survive.

As for your comment on PVP vs PVE on monks, I don't even see any material to support your comment, so I'll ignore it. PVP and PVE are different games, and that's all there is to it. Just because someone choses to play PVE doesn't mean that they're so stupid all they can do is spam flare or healing breeze with no energy management. Please.

As others have already stated, your comments show a complete lack of understanding of basic game mechanics which can really help even in PvE.

Here's an example of just how dead wrong you are:

Some of my guildmates formed a team for masters through Nahpui Quarter last night and I decided to go with (cause this mission is fun) even though I already had masters for all my PvE characters. With only 5 guildmates going, we had to take on three PUGs and I carefully screened them to assure there would be no issues. The three PUGs were 2 barragers and a boon healer. The guild portion of my team consisted of 3 warriors, 1 barrager, and an order of pain/offering of blood/blood ritual/heal party/heal area necromancer. All the warriors and rangers in the team had 16 attribute in weapon mastery.

The warriors brought healing signet but did not use it much for the most part. What was more useful were the supplementary shouts we brought -- one copy of watch yourself, 2 copies of shields up, and a copy of charge. Also useful were the 2 copies of wild blow and the increased attack speed stances we brought -- frenzy or tiger's fury. The frenzy warriors did not have a swap stance. Sure we took a few deaths throughout the mission (probably 4 or 5 total for the team), but we rez sigged fast and the sigs recharged each time we killed a boss.

The damage output was insane and we mowed through the mission in 16:54 (for reference masters reward is 25 minutes or less) and this was without edge of extinction which we could have used to make it go even faster. 16 in your weapon attribute does take you far in PvE, because it allows you to just kill everything before the damage your team takes becomes a problem for your monk(s). The enemies were literally exploding so fast that having a ranger take 5 seconds to lay down winnowing was actually inefficient except at the boss areas. Having a blood bath and going at a blazing pace is what can make PvE fun. "Tanking" and taking over 35 or 40 minutes to do a mission only to get standard reward is not fun.

Monks who have PvP experience are better at PvE than the majority of monks who have never played PvP. This is a fact. I have seen some disgusting things on PvE monk bars (animate flesh golem, flare, firestorm, conjure phantasm, conjure nightmare, and numberous other skills that do not belong). I have seen a PvE monk have purge signet on their bar and actually use it shortly after a minion master had cast blood is power on the monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynxius Pardonus

Ever heard of stance tanks???
Do you even know what their job is??
Do you even have any idea how easy this can make a small partys objective be completed?
A stances tank, and i mean, a Good Tanker, will take the whole agro, usually evade nearly everysingle Physical atack [melee and ranged(yes the underrated evade arrows stances)], and make it much easier on the monks healing duty, while the casters nuke away.

I remember farming Green bosses in Sorrows furnace with 4 people.
All thanks to proper tanking, proper healing, proper nuking, and the ocasional MM which will body block with his minions(which is unrequired with a good warrior tanker).

-Lynxius

The example you give is for less than full parties to power farm green drops and does not apply to general PvE play. Even then, most of the power farming teams would be better off forming a powerful 8 man team (instead of 4) and completing the farming run two or three times in the time it would have taken them to complete it once with 4 people. Tanking IMO is best left to solo farming situations. A good warrior, even with 16 in weapon attribute, will still collect the aggro and take the hits for which their natural armor level is better able to handle but will actually kill the enemies in the process.

Theus · Sep 13, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynxius Pardonus

Ever heard of stance tanks???
Do you even know what their job is??
Do you even have any idea how easy this can make a small partys objective be completed?
A stances tank, and i mean, a Good Tanker, will take the whole agro, usually evade nearly everysingle Physical atack [melee and ranged(yes the underrated evade arrows stances)], and make it much easier on the monks healing duty, while the casters nuke away.

I remember farming Green bosses in Sorrows furnace with 4 people.
All thanks to proper tanking, proper healing, proper nuking, and the ocasional MM which will body block with his minions(which is unrequired with a good warrior tanker).

-Lynxius

Lol.I bet you were great at holding those gears.

Rera · Sep 13, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynxius Pardonus

Ever heard of stance tanks???
Do you even know what their job is??
Do you even have any idea how easy this can make a small partys objective be completed?

I know 'stance tanks' by their other name: "deadweight".

Farming is a fundamentally different activity from normal PvE play. Invincimonks are the staple farming tank build, but only a moron would take one on a mission.